Should "difficult" music be on WTJU?

[chris]

This week I had several more calls to my show than usual, due to all the ongoing events we all know. All of these callers supported the current station and shows. However, one caller did tell me that, though he likes my show, he will turn off WTJU if the music is too extreme.

I also saw somewhere during this past week's debate a comment about hearing music on WTJU that sounds like "vacuum cleaners running."

So does "difficult" music have a place at WTJU considering the current climate?

I have always championed such music on my show, even when the work is hard to hear to due to the extreme nature of the sound. After all, if WTJU doesn't play this, who will? I also thought that if such music is only played during certain shows where the audience can expect it, then perhaps it is not detrimental to the station. Additionally, I feel the music has artistic and creative merit.

On the other hand, if the casual listener turns this stuff on, he/she might think that WTJU plays grating "vacuum-cleaner" noise frequently. The market for difficult music is small, and its existence on the air possibly drives away more listeners than it attracts. Furthermore, much of this music is not "upbeat". Often its downright angry and critical.

I certainly don't see a place for such music in the "new" WTJU---or am I wrong?

What do you think?

[sam]

When I had a show I always kept an 11pm slot for this reason. The times I subbed a daytime slot I tried to keep the programming more palatable for a less ambitious audience. My sense is that most other DJs do this without having to be asked.

I'm not sure if official rules need to be in place, but my sense of the unofficial rules is that highly abrasive stuff should be avoided whenever you're not supposed to play the f word.

I certainly thing that, after 10pm, the DJs should go out of their way to play a few songs each show that really challenge people's ideas of beauty, or their notions of what kinds of sounds can count as "music."

In a way, doing so introduces to people something they find weird now, but which they'll find normal in a decade or two. Many styles now used to sell sneakers, or as cartoon theme songs (punk and old school rap come to mind) were considered extremely difficult to listen to by most people when they were new.

[Smilin Tyler]

I do try to keep the frequencies somewhat muted during my daytime show, but I will also play a lot of stuff that isn't rock. I play rock, free jazz, chorales, field recordings, primitive music, gamelan, punk... what I am trying to do is say, listen, I listen to rock, and these are places that rock has brought me, things that are one step maybe to the left of rock. Other stuff that might appeal to people who have before only listened to rock.

I guess that would be considered difficult, but I feel that it is part of our mission, to educate and to entertain. I also guess that it could be considered confusing.

To answer the question in the OP, I would say that if our purpose is not to punish or exclude, to ram our putative coolness down the throat of the listener, then some "difficult" music can and should be played, but always with the listener in mind.

[zengomi]

Let's define "difficult".

[Smilin Tyler]

Good point. I mean, I know it when I see it, but I'm not on the Supreme Court, so that definition won't cut it. Obviously, as with any aesthetic judgment, we're dealing with considerable gray area. But offhand, I'd say the following things are difficult: extended feedback, naked sine waves, uh, any Japanese music over 100 bpm, any Japanese music under 80 bpm, uh, um, Devo? Oh shit.

[chris]

I don't know how I'd define "difficult" music myself.

What's bothering me is that if our main goal is to increase listenership, then it seems that it is harder to make a case for difficult. If our main goal is diversity, or education, or giving extreme alternative music a voice, then the case becomes easier.

So can we get to 18,000 listeners while still having a place for difficult music? Can we get to 18,000 while playing music that is decidedly not "upbeat"?

In Chuck's letter, he talks about whether the station is more important, or the individual show. If the compromise is not to make music more palatable for a wider audience, what exactly does he mean?

Of course, I'd like to believe that we can get many more listeners while still reserving the right to play a symphony of vacuums. Perhaps if people knew we were going to play such music and when, that they might be interested or curious.

[Smilin Tyler]

I think one of the problems Burr and the OPA see with WTJU is that people expecting to hear "Rock" whenever rock is on the schedule might not be hearing what they consider as rock... i.e., difficult or challenging music. I feel that "consistency" within a block of programming will, in fact, increase our identifiability (to a point), but at the cost of shaving off those difficult corners, which can only be heard on WTJU. Our niche and our identity may be, in fact, that we are the only ones who play music that is NOT normally heard on other stations, be they classical, folk, jazz, community affairs or rock.

To bring this towards what I was saying earlier: I feel that we have a duty to play the music that is not, for whatever reason, being played on other stations. That having been said, we should not be hitting the audience over the head. We should be placing that difficult music within a context where it can be appreciated. That means warning the listener aforehand (as we should do with show descriptions) and speaking to why this difficult music is being played and why it might be appreciated.

[sam]

As a first step toward defining what "difficult" music might be, I guess I'd rephrase something I said above:

Music that, in order to enjoy it, you need to expand your current notion of what can count as "good" music, or of what can count as "music" at all. When I think of difficult music, I think of sounds that, until what I'm hearing forced me to reexamine the question, I would have considered ugly, or wrong, or unmusical.

I guess not everything that has these qualities is difficult music, and not all difficult music has those qualities, but I think much of what we consider difficult music could be described this way.

[chris]

Difficult music is not easily accessible. And this is the crux of the problem. We don't want to turn off listeners. We do want to expand horizons. We don't want to bludgeon our audience, we do want to give voice to challenging art.

But I've always believed in our listeners. I think that there is a significant portion of the listening community that wants to hear, or at least is open to hearing, extreme sonics. By turning to WTJU already the listener has shown an interest in something besides "normal" radio and standard "alternative".

I also believe, as I think Tyler is saying, there are many more people out there that might be curious or interested in this music if it is presented in some context that can ease or facilitate accessibility. I hope in trying to alleviate perceived problems of "a smattering" of musical genres we don't silence the difficult.

[pete]

Maybe this is a new topic, but i'll put it with the 'difficult' topic anyway.

First show i hosted after the Iraq war started, i played a set of Dixie Chicks songs, just because. Chuck Taylor knew i was going to do that & made no effort to stop me, bless him. I got a call from some guy who was pissed off, told me he'd never donate to the station ever again. I have no idea whether he had ever donated before, but, whatever. I've often played anti-war songs, & in fact some of you may recall the protest song show during one recent folk marathon hosted by Mark Haskins & others that generated one of the top totals for that particular marathon. Point is that difficult for some listeners to stomach is often exactly what other listeners are craving.

[steve vargo]

although 'difficult music' can be difficult to listen to, i definitely think it has a place on TJU. there is something to be gained from listening to it. to me, sound collage or other sound art is exciting due to the simple fact that people are doing it. i've gotten through many very very strange sound art pieces, and as an artist, i almost always glean something from them, take certain elements and use them in my own work. WTJU is a rare venue where such art can be played. we are lucky to have the station as a resource.